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 BangSteel 
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Sharp-Sighted Shooter of Substantially Separated Steels (but can't hear shit)
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Post BangSteel
I went to BangSteel...

Who wants to touch me?

I said, WHO WANTS TO FUCKING TOUCH ME?!?
(South Park reference...Cartman sees the Terrence and Phillip movie.) :lol:

Situated in the hills of southwest VA. The topography is sloped, open pastures mixed with standing forest and individual trees...and big rocks. Naturally, the valleys provide for a tumultuous vortex of wind when it's blowing. It was blowing. An EZUP went airborne the 2nd day.

We started the 1st day at the dude's house, 0900. Introductions followed by a little friendly chit-chat (with a right wing bend), then off to discussing/understanding MOA, Mils and the relationships to/between each. The participants were a mix of LE, construction, college student and Army civilian employee (my buddy).

About 1115, we all headed to the range, 15-20 minute drive, plus a stop for lunch "to go" from Subway. It's a cow pasture with a small equipment barn. The set-up is on an open, shed side of the barn overlooking a small valley, the trough of which was 1/4 mile away with the other side of the valley rising up to a tree line about 3/4 mile away. There are over a dozen total targets on both sides of the valley...18" square plates, 24" plates, a 3 1/2' long pig at 1100-ish, some fox/dog/canine things, a plate that rings like a gong and the 100yd paper for zeroing which we did at the start of each morning to take into account any development in our shooting from previous days. One of the percs of being at a place with presumably competent participants is that there weren't a bunch of range-nazi commands. We were spread out, three shooters at a time in a rough line, on carpet remnants and make shift plywood blinders between us. (When the WinMag went off in the lane next to me, I thought it was the Barrett.)
After given a target to shoot and you were ready to exhale that 1/2 breath, the commands were as follows: When the shooter is ready, say "Shooter ready." The spotter will answer with either "Ready" or "Standby."
That was it.
My buddy (former Marine) commented on how pleasant it was not to have some jackwagon struttin' around and spittin' authoritative nonsense. Everyone here had sense.

A VA Trooper joined us at the range around 1300 with a recently acquired AR15. A previous student, he was drilling 200, 300 and beyond with rapid fire. NIce guy, had some interesting comments I'll mention in a later post.

After zeroing, I was told to dial in so many mils and shoot the 600. WHaaa? Okay, so I didn't hit, but they were spotting each and every shot everyone took and gave corrections for elevation and wind calls throughout the course. Some few rounds later and jackpot! I could not believe that just happened...but it turned out to be the MO for the remainder of the event. Dial this, shoot, correct, hit.
"Hit it again."
"Again."
"Okay, let's go to 900."

After making note of the Mils I dialed for 600, I thought, 900?!? Really? Already?
Yup. Interesting ballpark fun-fact, the elevation you dial for 600 is half that dialed for 900.
"Dial **.*mils and hold 3/4mil right."
Miss.
Corrections.
Hit...or miss and dial corrections.
"Hit it again." and so on.
Then off to 500 and 700 to repeat the process.

The goal of BangSteel is to develop a trajectory table based on real world results with the individual's equipment and choice of ammo. Odd ranges were thrown in for good measure, 940, 725, 640, etc. to proof the table. Science being science, the trajectory can not change on its own given a bullet's factors - speed, shape. The external factors being wind, air density - temp/humidity/altitude. Regardless, the bullet is gonna drop at a consistent and calculable rate.
I had two trajectories. ???

Near the end of the 1st day, I did have my initial trajectory table, tho' it wasn't quite right. I could easily have spent the $340 course fee on ammo trying to do this myself, assuming I had steel plates and 1200yds of range to play on, but I'd be left with uncertainty about what I was doing even if i was doing it right. How would I know? I shot 147rounds...way less than I imagine it would take nearly any long-range neophyte individual doing it on their own.
Everyone was of the opinion that it was money well spent.

The 2nd day started at the house, again at 0900. A new face joined us, one that Dan (the dude) had mentioned the day before, and he brought donuts...the best donuts I've ever had. "Yeah, we got this dentist that just drills the targets." Well, the dentist was certainly an accomplished shooter as his ability to perform was witnessed, but I wonder how much of the donut gesture was job security. :D
This day, we discussed coriolis, spindrift and all the other black magic. None of it matters below 600-700yds for .308, 6.5 or WinMag. Beyond that, none of it matters either as your corrections for wind will have greater effect on your hit. Call the wind wrong, you're gonna miss anyway. Call it right and you'll be off just 2.3" @1000yds regardless whether you're shooting N, S, E or W. (That's less than 1/4" @ 100yds for you math challenged.) If you've read anything on the BangSteel.com website, you may have seen that their goal is to give shooters the ability to take game at extreme hunting ranges. 2.3" off point of aim @ 1000yds with a heavy hittin' caliber is a kill, assuming you targeted for an ethical kill.

As day two started at the range, the winds were calmer. We all re-zeroed at 100. I was spotting my own shots even tho' they were being called and corrected. It looked to me like I was all over the place...there were previous shots taken at these paper bullseyes and I couldn't quite track my shots. It looked to the trained spotter that I was drilling the same hole...I didn't find that out until later in the day.
Basically, we started up with the same routine, shooting different targets at similar ranges, some targets smaller, some differently shaped, some shaded to the point of being difficult to see even for the spotters. A new table was charted for me and I was off to the races, hittin' things pretty quickly and pretty regularly. It was clear that the rifle was quite capable of doing its job as I noticed each miss was either a wind call or I canted the rifle.
A bullseye upon returning to the 500 was followed up with, "Give me a second shot then go to rapid fire." I drilled that poor unsuspecting plate like a sailor drills hookers. A couple misses attributed to goin' off level (shooter error) but otherwise just blasting one target after the other. Then trouble set in...

The dude's son was spotting me at 700 or 640 or whatever when he couldn't make sense of my hits. He asked if he could shoot my rifle. "Sure, and here's a level built in to the mount." He responded with a look and said, "That's the best mount you can buy." That felt pretty good, kinda the first compliment coming my way.
So he fires three rounds and sees the first two hit on top of each other and the third went for a walk to the side. "Dad, it's not me. It's a good trigger. Something must be loose." I attest to following proper torque procedures for the scope rings and mount...I even grab the rifle by the scope and try to make it move. Rock solid.
It was at this point that he told me about my zero and subsequent hits with a perplexed look, like, what's wrong with the rifle?
That left one thing, the barrel. Was it loose? I hoped not as I had sent this back to Armalite to correct a rail mis-alignment and would assume they would not drop the ball on something relevant to the situation. But, yeah, there was movement.
I checked it and immediately dismissed it as the upper/lower interface...all ARs do this. Well the main dude (dad) wants to see for himself and while fiddle-fuckin' around with it he says, "Damn, this barrel's kinda hot, I can't hold on to it. Let it cool down."
That was my issue.
I waited 'til that thing was lukecool then hit the firing line again.

BTW, the dude's son was about 19. He presented himself as a competent, confident, accomplished and knowledgable shooter. His words were received with due respect. As he was blasting a few of his own down range, I asked if he was shooting factory ammo in his run of the mill looking package.
"No. I loaded these."
I ask, "How long you been loading?"
"I was sittin' on my daddy's knee, pulling levers, when I was four."
It hits me that this kid has bullets runnin' through his veins! :D

Back to shooting...
"Let's go to 1100."
"Dial 13.*mils, hold left 1/4mil."
Low miss.
Now the wind had been changing direction as the afternoon wore on and right about now it was coming dead on.
"Come up 4 clicks, no holds."
Bang, ding, bullseye. That's kinda how it went for the rest of the time.
As that performance continued, to include rapid fire sequences, I received quite a few compliments on my shooting. I could never have given them to myself and it felt good to hear it.
...and I got a cool sticker. :mrgreen:
Attachment:
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IMG_1439.JPG [ 524.2 KiB | Viewed 438 times ]

The stories of the other shooters and their rifles will be addressed in subsequent posts.
Hope this has been an easy read...

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Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:22 pm
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Post Re: BangSteel
Good stuff :rockon:

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Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:14 am
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Post Re: BangSteel
:hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: the almighty :fred:

Shall we dub Fred the Sharp-Sighted Shooter of Substantially Separated Steels?

Given your hearing, I couldn't help but think of the pinball wizard song.. :D

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Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:24 am
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Sharp-Sighted Shooter of Substantially Separated Steels (but can't hear shit)
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Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:28 pm
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Location: bloomsburg, midnight oil garage.
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Post Re: BangSteel
the almighty...yes.
< Please change my status. :lol:

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Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:23 am
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Post Re: BangSteel
funfred wrote:
< Please change my status. :lol:


Request complete. :rich: :laughing: :rich: :laughing: :rich: :laughing:

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'14 Zuma 155 - Yeah, it's striped, too.
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Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:24 pm
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Sharp-Sighted Shooter of Substantially Separated Steels (but can't hear shit)
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Post Re: BangSteel
:balls:

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Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:59 am
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Post Re: BangSteel
Fred, what ammo are you using?

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Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:41 pm
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Sharp-Sighted Shooter of Substantially Separated Steels (but can't hear shit)
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Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:28 pm
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Location: bloomsburg, midnight oil garage.
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Post Re: BangSteel
FGMM 168. I've yet to get my own info for various sits with the 168 SMKs...got another .308 I'm playin' with that needs the scope doped. Depending on what I find, next step is FGMM175...gotta find a range in excess of 600 yds to make it worthwhile.

The Creedmoor stuff with Scenars and Lapua brass is very enticing, particularly for the $. Various grs.
Having said that, I have so much (thousands) once-fired brass from my Rem700, almost all LC. The AR10 has only eaten FGMM and now I have once-fired brass for that but only 200 cases. I could easily start investing in Lapua brass (Creedmoor) where I'm the first breech those cartridges get fired in but how many rounds would satisfy me before I start reloading?

Reloading in the future...

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Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:06 pm
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Sharp-Sighted Shooter of Substantially Separated Steels (but can't hear shit)
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Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:28 pm
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Location: bloomsburg, midnight oil garage.
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Post Re: BangSteel
Going again...or thinking about it seriously. My same buddy is hittin' me up for it.
May 26, it's a Friday. Who's in? The more the merrier. There are two, so far. Price drops for everyone up to five.
Solo is $320
Two is $260
Three $240
Four $220
Five and more $200.
Kinda sucks that it's only one day, <7 hrs from Bloomsburg.

Make sure, if you're considering it, to check their website for pertinent info on rifle/scope requirements.
http://www.bangsteel.com/

Okay, not May 26th. Sometime in Jun/Jul then?

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Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:54 am
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Post Re: BangSteel
Geez... good work Fred. Sorry about the late post.

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Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:07 pm
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Post Re: BangSteel
I still haven't planned to go to Bang Steel yet but I am going to Lewistown this Friday and Saturday for Ghost Firearms Training Precision Rifle Course 1. I'll get my first crack at 1000 yards there.

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'06 CBR1000RR (street)
'01 RC51 #896 (track)
'01 RC51 #158 (street)
'06 Big Ruckus (battle scooter)
'08 Rincon
In track day club limbo #171
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Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:14 pm
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Sharp-Sighted Shooter of Substantially Separated Steels (but can't hear shit)
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Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:28 pm
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Location: bloomsburg, midnight oil garage.
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Post Re: BangSteel
If your experience is anything like mine, in hindsight, you'll wonder what all the fuss is about hittin' out to 1000. It's really no different than hitting cleanly at 100...unless wind starts playin' with ya.

Once you get out to a distance that allows you to view your hits through your scope as they happen, it gets real interesting.
Enthusiasm engaged, I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes a new Sunday morning ritual.
(Unfortunately, the nearest 1000yd range I'm aware of is 1.5 hrs away. I'm sure you know peeps with property, tho.)

Have fun. Don't rush anything.

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Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:03 am
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Post Re: BangSteel
funfred wrote:
If your experience is anything like mine, in hindsight, you'll wonder what all the fuss is about hittin' out to 1000. It's really no different than hitting cleanly at 100...unless wind starts playin' with ya.

Once you get out to a distance that allows you to view your hits through your scope as they happen, it gets real interesting.
Enthusiasm engaged, I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes a new Sunday morning ritual.
(Unfortunately, the nearest 1000yd range I'm aware of is 1.5 hrs away. I'm sure you know peeps with property, tho.)

Have fun. Don't rush anything.


I've only shot to 300 yards so far so once I finally get to stretch the legs of my rifle I'm sure you're right the fuss will diminish. Ballistics is ballistics. I've entered the best data I personally can into my ballistics app. It spits out a solution, I dial in for elevation, see what havoc the wind is playing, hold the crosshairs on target and squeeze the trigger as cleanly as I can. That's about all I can do. I know my rig can do it but I need to see if I can consistently. It will be neat to say I've hit a target at over 1/2 mile away (hopefully).

I just changed the brake on my Ruger from the factory brake that's ok to a PVA Mad Scientist. Lots of competitive shooters are raving about this guy's brake. They're made in Exton, PA. I've shot ten rounds through it so far to check for POI change and it does seem to jump a lot less than with the factory brake. It should make seeing the impacts through the scope easier. Like you said that will be interesting.

I've been doing a little Sunday morning shooting since the beginning of the year. Keystone Fish & Game club has a sniper shoot the fourth Sunday of every month. It's a friendly, bragging rights kind of shoot that cost a measly $5 to enter. They have groups for just about any kind of rifle and optics, or open sights. Ranges vary from 50 to 300 yards but some of the targets are freaking small. You have to hike through the woods and set up in a shooters box at each station to take a shot, maximum two shots per stage. There's roughly 13 targets depending on the route they decide to take that day and they score it like a batting percentage. 1.000 is perfect. The first time I went I took my AR and did ok. I think I shot .467 but the dude who actually set up the course was along and only shot a .667 with a new Savage Stealth (I think) in 6.5 Creedmoor and a big ass Vortex on top. I didn't feel too bad with that score shooting my AR with the 3x Eotech. The next three times I went with my Ruger and I won my group each time and only missed one shot each time by making stupid mistakes. I've missed the last couple months by being away or just busy. I'm going back soon. I'm getting that damn perfect score someday.

I actually can only think of one friend of mine that shoots and has lots of range. He has 600 yards but we haven't got together lately to shoot. You should see the outdoor style MX track he built at his place. I rode it once on his quad. It's freaking impressive! It's almost one mile long and has lots of elevation change.

This range in Lewiston I'm going to is like you said 1.5 hours from my house. I'm leaving at 6:00am sharp Friday. From what I've read these guys put on a good course. Day 1 Check in at 8:00, one hour of classroom talk and all other instruction is on the firing line. 100 yard to check zero and then start stretching it out while recording data. Break for lunch then after have some fun and games like a hostage sniper shoot, a best poker hand shoot and a swag giveaway. Break at 4:00 but the range stays open if you want. At dusk we'll start a low light shoot and can shoot their .50 cal at 1050 yards. Once they're done it sounds like they sit around at night and discuss ballistics around the fire and over some beers. Day 2 they break us into teams and do unknown distance sniper scenario drills, map terrain, range estimation using the reticles, etc. The last drill is a "know you limits drill" where you compete by picking targets, making hits and scoring points for the prize of top shooter for that class.

I won't rush anything besides the drive out there bright and early.

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Jarrod
'06 CBR1000RR (street)
'01 RC51 #896 (track)
'01 RC51 #158 (street)
'06 Big Ruckus (battle scooter)
'08 Rincon
In track day club limbo #171
California Superbike School corner marshal @ NJMP

"...and it all adds up"


Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:01 pm
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Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:54 pm
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Location: Danville, PA
Post Re: BangSteel
Ghost was an awesome class. Super group of guys running it. I can't wait to go back again. I'll post a review soon.


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Jarrod
'06 CBR1000RR (street)
'01 RC51 #896 (track)
'01 RC51 #158 (street)
'06 Big Ruckus (battle scooter)
'08 Rincon
In track day club limbo #171
California Superbike School corner marshal @ NJMP

"...and it all adds up"
Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:36 am
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Post Re: BangSteel
:beer: :beer: :beer:

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Rich Q.
'07-08 Yamaha R6 - Race "the Tiger Bike"
'04 Aprilia Tuono - Street/coaching
'06 KTM XC-W 200 - braaap!
'14 Zuma 155 - Yeah, it's striped, too.
CCS Expert #128
EvolveGT coach #128

Thanks to my 2017 sponsors! METRIC DEVIL MOTO / PIRELLI TIRE | SCORPION | WOODCRAFT | VORTEX | PARTS CLUB | HAZARDOUS RACING
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Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:48 am
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Sharp-Sighted Shooter of Substantially Separated Steels (but can't hear shit)
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Post Re: BangSteel
Sticker AND a certificate. I got gypped. :D

I wanna hear about hangin' upside down, on a zipline, while doing a combat reload, shooting at a moving target, in the fog, with one hand tied behind your back.
You know, to simulate a strong-hand injury. :lol:

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Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:36 am
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Ride Red or ride nothing!

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:54 pm
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Location: Danville, PA
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Location: Danville, PA
Post Re: BangSteel
funfred wrote:
Sticker AND a certificate. I got gypped. :D

I wanna hear about hangin' upside down, on a zipline, while doing a combat reload, shooting at a moving target, in the fog, with one hand tied behind your back.
You know, to simulate a strong-hand injury. :lol:


That sounds like their tactical carbine course they teach in Calverton.

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Jarrod
'06 CBR1000RR (street)
'01 RC51 #896 (track)
'01 RC51 #158 (street)
'06 Big Ruckus (battle scooter)
'08 Rincon
In track day club limbo #171
California Superbike School corner marshal @ NJMP

"...and it all adds up"


Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:58 am
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