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 Dual sportin’ 
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Post Dual sportin’
I did some dual sport riding over the weekend. It was a last minute thing when I actually found some free time. I confiscated my dad’s XR650 for the afternoon. He’s always telling me take it whenever, he doesn’t ride it all that much. I went out for a few hours exploring some area dirt roads that I’ve seen wondering where the hell they go. What a blast! Yeah I can see myself getting into places I shouldn’t be.

If I wasn’t convinced that I need a dual sport before I definitely am now.

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Tue May 29, 2018 5:59 pm
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Post Re: Dual sportin’
Another bike I need!

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Tue May 29, 2018 10:13 pm
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Ride Red or ride nothing!

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Post Re: Dual sportin’
Rich you’ll be shocked as shit as to what I’ve been looking at for a dual sport bike. It’s not from a company with a five letter name beginning with “H” ;)

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Jarrod
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Wed May 30, 2018 5:49 am
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Post Re: Dual sportin’
Then it's got to be something more exotic, like KTM or Beta.

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Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:10 pm
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Post Re: Dual sportin’
KTM is my guess as well. This honda fan really wants the man version of Eskimos bike. A ktm 300 2 stroke. Supposed to be awesome.

To be fair tho, I'd probably hurt myself just as fast on that one.


Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:04 pm
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Post Re: Dual sportin’
Eskimo wrote:
Then it's got to be something more exotic, like KTM or Beta.


Yep! I've always liked Husky's almost bought one years ago, thought about a KTM but I gravitated toward a Beta. I just happen to know a guy who sells them too. I'm pretty hooked on a 390RR-S.

Honda is releasing a CFR450L for '19 that's supposed to be pretty bad ass. That almost threw a wrench in my plans but I'm still really liking the Beta.

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Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:29 am
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Post Re: Dual sportin’
61Cubes wrote:
KTM is my guess as well. This honda fan really wants the man version of Eskimos bike. A ktm 300 2 stroke. Supposed to be awesome.

To be fair tho, I'd probably hurt myself just as fast on that one.


I looked at Beta's 300RR two-stoke. RyanCo had an '18 in the showroom last time I was there. It's freaking nice! Ryan told me to come out to ride it, he'd get it prepped for me but I thought better at the time because I knew I'd be throwing credit cards at him yelling shut up and take my money. I wasn't quite ready to be buying then, actually I'm still not but I'm getting there. Best part of the 300RR is its pretty easily made street legal. 300cc oil injected two stroke dual sport? That sounds like too much fun but I'm going to go with a fuel injected four stroke. Not messing with another carburetor sounds good to me too.

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Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:40 am
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Post Re: Dual sportin’
We ever gonna get this group together for a two-wheeled off road venture?
My vote is for AOAA.

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Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:39 pm
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Post Re: Dual sportin’
funfred wrote:
We ever gonna get this group together for a two-wheeled off road venture?
My vote is for AOAA.


Yes! Soon as I get my Beta


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Jarrod
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Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:09 pm
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Post Re: Dual sportin’
Well? Whatcha waitin' for?
:D

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Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:56 pm
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Post Re: Dual sportin’
funfred wrote:
Well? Whatcha waitin' for?
:D


. That’s what.

Plus at this point in the year I might as well wait to see what they do with the ‘19’s. The 2018’s had some very significant changes so I have no idea what, if much at all, they’ll change again but I won’t know for awhile yet. If they change nothing that will be ok with me too.



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Jarrod
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Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:18 pm
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Post Re: Dual sportin’
Cool, then you can find a leftover '18. :)

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Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:05 pm
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Post Re: Dual sportin’
funfred wrote:
Cool, then you can find a leftover '18. :)


That would probably be ideal, especially if the price was a leftover price.

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Jarrod
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Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:36 pm
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Post Re: Dual sportin’
So much for waiting on the ‘19 news. Beta announced the new 200RR two-stroke and revisions to the rest of the line up already. Looks like the 4-strokes got minor revisions only.

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Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:53 am
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Post Re: Dual sportin’
That's a tough call. Do the two strokes offer revisions that would warrant choosing them over a four stroke? (The 300 is beastly.)
I'm guessing they are lighter (which may translate to different handling characteristics) and you know they put out some power, but their street mileage (fuel) could be a major disappointment.

I hear people all the time stating that stink bikes require less maintenance. I don't buy it nor have any idea where they come up with that. Their maintenance consists of swapping in new rings and pistons! Though relatively easy to change, it's not something you deal with on a four stroke as a course of maintenance. Hell, My 426 has never so much as needed a valve adjustment, and I check. It's 18 years old!
Fuel, oil, filters, and other consumables like chain, sprockets and tires...weighed against a two stroke, it's a wash. Pop a valve cover and maybe the cam(s), or pull the top end...
Winner? Four stroke.

So what does it come down to...price, daily living, handling?
I'm glad I'm not making that decision. :D
(I'd prolly buy a WR450F, discontinued for 2019 along with the WR250R [street legal]. Eighteen years is a damn long time to be abusing the same motorcycle and not having any regrets. ;))

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Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:35 am
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Post Re: Dual sportin’
The '19 300 RR two-stokes are getting a new ECU, clutch revisions, exhaust valve and power valve refinements and new expansion chamber. The four stoke RR-S's are getting nothing engine wise. They got major clutch and fuel injection revamps last year. Chassis changes to all two-stroke RR and four-stroke RR-S models are the same, minor stuff. Relocating the fork adjustments to the top of the forks and making them tooless. Redesigned shock, new anodizing on the forks, nothing major especially once someone sends their suspension out to a suspension magician. Like I mentioned before with all the major changes last year I'm surprised they did anything besides bold new graphics, which by the way I think I slightly prefer the '18 graphics.

The 300RR is supposed to be 229lbs vs the 390 RR-S is 242 but that includes the extra street running gear so they're close in dry weight.

Ryan Betz (at RyanCo) told me the 300RR is unlike any other two stroke you'll ever ride. You can literally lug it around in first gear all day and it's perfectly happy then point it in an unobstructed direction, twist the throttle and blast off, it will do anything you want it to. I've watched shit loads of videos of guys riding these things nearly like trails bikes but they're a full size dirt bike. They must be pretty damn amazing. As far as the street use he said he wouldn't intentionally set out to ride a 300 on lots of street miles but zipping down a road to get from one trail to the next is great. They have a 2.5 gallon tank stock and typically get three tanks of fuel to one tank of oil so I think the range would be ok, not great.

I agree with you on the maintenance thing.

What's it come down to? Handling is about the same, they run the same chassis. The 390 is their long stroke tractor like motor with decent top end power now too due to last year's new two stage fuel injection. Being able to lug it around or blast off like the 300RR makes that a wash in my opinion. The 390 costs more but it includes everything to street ride legally and a trick Trail Tech Voyager GPS unit. Both are e-start with no standard kick starter, it can be added easily though, but something about hitting the button on the fuel injected four stoke and no fuss warm up and no carburetion issues from temp or elevation changes appeals to me.

I'm sure I'd be very happy with either but I'm going with the 390. I've also talked myself out of going with the 430 or 480. I want something with a good balance of power and weight. The actual weights aren't that much different but the Beta forum guys say they feel a lot different. The Race models according to Ryan are the same bikes as the standard bikes with everything unnecessary stripped off, some anodized bits and pieces, different graphics and suspension initially valved for someone way faster than me. He said he even prefers the standard suspension for regular off-road work, that coming from a guy who rode AMA Pro Motocross. Not to mention the Race models aren't initially street legal either.

Now off to rob a bank or something :twisted:

Yamaha discontinued the WR450 and 250??? Really?

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Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:13 pm
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Post Re: Dual sportin’
Ah I see Yamaha has a new YZ450FX for ‘19. That should be very nice. Not sure what they’re doing with the 250 dual sport given the popularity of the CRF250L though.

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Jarrod
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Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:08 pm
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Post Re: Dual sportin’
Looked at the 2018 390. Yeah, graphics are more appealing.
Decision's made. What are you doin', waitin' for it to not be available? Git yer butt on up to Ryan's already. :lol:

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Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:38 pm
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Post Re: Dual sportin’
funfred wrote:
Looked at the 2018 390. Yeah, graphics are more appealing.
Decision's made. What are you doin', waitin' for it to not be available? Git yer butt on up to Ryan's already. :lol:


Ha! Funny you should say that. I ran out there after work today. He said the '18 390's are currently backordered which means he can still order one, in other words they aren't done producing them yet. He's thinking mid July arrival.

He doesn't know a ton about the '19's yet. Dealers get the press release one day before us commoners get it but no real details at this time. He's a little skeptical about the fork changes saying that other manufacturers have relocated all adjustments to the fork caps and by deleting the compression bleed through at the bottom of the fork and moving it up top and it fucks up overall fork performance. He's hoping they figured it out this time at Beta. I don't completely understand it but he's a suspension magician, I'm sure he does.

Last time he rode all the models at Glen Helen the 390 was his favorite four stroke. He said he could have spent all day on it. He's a two stroke guy though.

He corrected my belief that the Race models weren't easily made street legal. I just don't need that suspension valving though.

He gave me a good price on an '18. There's really not much for leftovers or huge price cuts at the end of a model year because Beta really doesn't over produce bikes like the Japanese manufacturers do. They tend to sell out and used ones hold their value well too. If I can get an '18 I'll beat the price increase for '19 plus a little bit from a good deal he offered me. I'm happy with the offer.

He has a beautiful '18 XTrainer there if anyone is looking.

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Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:20 pm
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Post Re: Dual sportin’
Get the smoker... When it's not trying to kill you, they're fun as hell! I rode a KTM 300 not too long ago, and it was really cool. you really could lug the shit out of it, and then baabapapapapaBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZWHEEEEEEEEEE

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Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:47 am
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Post Re: Dual sportin’
I spent a bunch of time on an Beta X-trainer 300. Both me and the owner of the bike agree that he would choose the 390 RR if he would do it all over again. The motor on the X-trainer is perfect for single track. It lugs like a diesel, but it didn't have a big HP hit like other two strokes. The weight of the bike and low seat height were also big advantages. The more experience we got, we quickly outgrew the suspension. The understanding I got was that the 390 had much better suspension and even more usable torque.


We are both riding KTM's now. I primarily ride his 250 XC-W (4-stroke) and he rides his other 200 EXC (2-stroke).

If you start riding, check out reading anthracite. I talked with one of the organizers and he said that he is negotiating an agreement that they could ride through AOAA and Rausch Creek. You could ride from Shamokin to Pottsville on trails! I will have a membership every year.

Our next ride will be 7/31/18. We ride during the week because of my stupid work schedule. Anyone is welcome. We do mostly single track and we prefer to park near Pottsville.

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Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:45 pm
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Post Re: Dual sportin’
I've been through the entire cycle in the last 2 years. Learned a lot and still am. I first Fixed the old 98' ktm300...that lasted a few minutes...I still have it but it's behind the times. Then I decided I needed something easier to ride so I got a brand new 17 Beta xtrainer from Ryanco last year. Awesome bike and many advantages with the small frame, awesome motor and usable power. Can't recommend Ryanco enough.

I really like Betas. Their engines have broad usable power and their lower seat heights and ergos are Enduro friendly. Ktm-a-varna have some advantages too, the new counterbalanced 2 strokes are very smooth, my main issue with them is the MX frame is over an inch taller than Beta and the 18' 300 I rode felt like Beta still had more off idle torque.

I Bought a 06' KTM 200 as a spare bike, which it turns out I really like. I then picked a 09 KTM 250f xc (closed cartridge forks) to try a small 4 stroke. It Turns out I don't get to ride it because it's turned into my loaner. Both bikes have suspension tuned by solid performance in Downingtown, low seats, and are getting dialed in. I sold the XT to my cousin, he loves it and I like the ktms better right now.

The 300 2 stroke is the gold standard of Enduro. They are light, low maintenance, and the power can be easily tuned from smooth to hard hitting. 4 strokes are better for dual sporting, if doing more road riding my suggestion is to get the bigger cc. Don't forget 250 2 strokes either. The 390 is what I'd get for an Enduro 4 stroke or do-it-all mostly dirt bike...but my favorite right now is between 2 strokes: a 250rr race or a 300 and tune it down.

Im a big 2 stroke fan, they are so good now and in the trees the weight is a big deal zigging back and forth. I've had my 200 and 250 on the scales and the 250 only weighs a few pounds more but it feels much heavier going back and forth around obstacles.

The biggest deal by far is suspension. I disagree with Ryan at ryanco about suspension philosophy. I think he's really trying to help people get into a bike that's right for them but I think you should always buy the best suspension you can afford. Closed cartridge Forks on the RR beta race can be tuned to handle slow Enduro but they handle fast hits and aggressive riding better. You can have them set up by BYOB through Beta USA or Ryanco. Riding around coal country is a never-ending washboard of rocks and fast hits on suspension and that's what did it for the xtrainer for me. You need the absolute best suspension you can afford on the bike the motor is secondary the brakes are 3rd and you need something you can touch the ground on and ride comfortably.

Also I'd highly recommend looking used. You maybe can't find one right away but I found two really great bikes for a lot less money than one new beta even though I love new betas, plus they have tuned suspension and that made all the difference. If you get a new bike from ryanco make sure you pay him to set it up for you and don't go cheap.

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Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:23 am
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Post Re: Dual sportin’
Good info you guys. Thanks much!

As far as the suspension goes the more I read the more I'm really torn. Ryan told me a story about a customer of his who had an older Beta that he really liked but sold it for a new RR Race model. He came back soon after saying the bike was just so stiff that he hated it. Ryan tuned the suspension and now the guy loves it but Ryan's point was he spent money on the Race model that he didn't need to. On the other hand I usually spend money I don't need to pretty routinely. Maybe this is a case where I should and I'll grow into it. I'm kinda waiting to hear more feedback on the new ZF forks on the '19's. I've read a little and it sounds like they moved rebound to one fork and compression to the other similar to many other forks out there and not exactly what Ryan was predicting last I spoke with him. Maybe they'll be just what I need, maybe Ryan can dial the OC forks in for me or maybe I'll go with the BYOB route. At this point I'm not going to rush my decision even though I'd like to be out riding. I'm so damn busy lately anyway.

A friend of mine saw a used '18 300RR in NY for sale and sent me the ad. It looked super clean and low hours on it but I'm pretty set on a 390RR-S.

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Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:14 am
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Post Re: Dual sportin’
You really can't go wrong with either bike, race edition or standard.

The OC forks are simpler, easier to rebuild, require less frequent maintenance and maintenance is cheaper, and they can be set up great for woods. the CC forks resist fading better and give a better ultimate suspension performance, that's why they exist, but they require more frequent fork oil changes and there are more parts. Beta isn't known for good suspension, their Sachs and especially Olle' (xtrainer) suspensions have been hammered on by most riders but have supposedly been getting better every year. ZF is Sachs, so more of a re-badge really.

With Ryan it's not right or wrong, it's just that in my experience he steers you towards what he thinks is good enough based on his (vast) experience. If you are a good enough kind of guy that works. If you are picky or want the best after such a big investment as a new bike (like me) you need to be assertive (politely) with him and tell him what you want. CC forks will be harsh unless you are fast, most guys aren't fast enough with the stock settings. Most everyone seems to agree they are magic once tuned and sprung. I gave up tuning my xtrainer with Ryanco because there wasn't any point for me to continue tuning it, but I would trust him with OC, CC or any other forks. I take my KTM's to Solid because they are closer and are a nationally recognized excellent tuner in their own right.

My point being, suspension is THE most important, and if you can afford it go for the best then spend more and have it set up and don't look back.

My other observations is that bigger guys like 4 strokes a bit more, I'm only 5'10 and 175. If you are 6 foot or closer to 200 lbs the extra weight really starts to become trivial and the other good 4 stroke characteristics seem to shine. Someone else I know closer to 200+ seems to prefer the 4 strokes ;)


Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:50 am
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Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:54 pm
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Location: Danville, PA
What I ride: '01 RC51 (street),'06 CBR1000RR (street),'01 RC51 (track)
Location: Danville, PA
Post Re: Dual sportin’
bikesandcars wrote:
You really can't go wrong with either bike, race edition or standard.

The OC forks are simpler, easier to rebuild, require less frequent maintenance and maintenance is cheaper, and they can be set up great for woods. the CC forks resist fading better and give a better ultimate suspension performance, that's why they exist, but they require more frequent fork oil changes and there are more parts. Beta isn't known for good suspension, their Sachs and especially Olle' (xtrainer) suspensions have been hammered on by most riders but have supposedly been getting better every year. ZF is Sachs, so more of a re-badge really.

With Ryan it's not right or wrong, it's just that in my experience he steers you towards what he thinks is good enough based on his (vast) experience. If you are a good enough kind of guy that works. If you are picky or want the best after such a big investment as a new bike (like me) you need to be assertive (politely) with him and tell him what you want. CC forks will be harsh unless you are fast, most guys aren't fast enough with the stock settings. Most everyone seems to agree they are magic once tuned and sprung. I gave up tuning my xtrainer with Ryanco because there wasn't any point for me to continue tuning it, but I would trust him with OC, CC or any other forks. I take my KTM's to Solid because they are closer and are a nationally recognized excellent tuner in their own right.

My point being, suspension is THE most important, and if you can afford it go for the best then spend more and have it set up and don't look back.

My other observations is that bigger guys like 4 strokes a bit more, I'm only 5'10 and 175. If you are 6 foot or closer to 200 lbs the extra weight really starts to become trivial and the other good 4 stroke characteristics seem to shine. Someone else I know closer to 200+ seems to prefer the 4 strokes ;)


I've been leaning towards to RR-S rather than the Race edition because it's immediately street legal. Other than the forks, graphics and some tid bits they're basically the same bike I'm told.

Thanks for that info on the OC vs CC forks. It's not something I'm up to speed on yet. I've read they have been improving a bit every year. I just read a report from a dude in Europe somewhere that got a look at the '19 ZF Sachs forks on a 300RR. He's a well known guy on the Beta forum. He says the left fork is rebound, right side is compression and preload. His initial impression was that stiction was almost non-existent compared to previous years that needed 5-10 hours to free up. Adjusters made a good bit of difference too. He seemed to think it's going to be a good OC fork and a big improvement over their previous forks.

I've known Ryan since we were little kids. He even worked on construction with us for a few years before he started his business. He's the kind of guy that won't go overboard with things that aren't absolutely necessary or maybe hold off on something you can easily change later. I have no issue though with telling him what I want but I do respect his opinion since I'm basically completely new to these bikes. You've given me some great advice too so I have some thinking to do. He's told me exactly what you said that the CC forks will be harsh unless you're fast. I'm probably not going to be very fast right away but I've always like my bikes set up a little on the stiff side though.

If you're 5'10 175 lbs you're the same size as me then. I think I know the closer to 200 + guy you're referring to that likes 4-strokes. Maybe when I get this bike I'll have to let him test it out too.

_________________
Jarrod
'01 RC51 #896 (track)
'01 RC51 #158 (street)
'06 Big Ruckus (battle scooter)
'08 Rincon
In track day club limbo #171
California Superbike School corner marshal @ NJMP

"...and it all adds up"


Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:09 pm
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