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 Track tires... 
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Sharp-Sighted Shooter of Substantially Separated Steels (but can't hear shit)
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Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:28 pm
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What I ride: CBR1000RR
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Post Track tires...
So I've been playin' with Dunlops and Michelins, GPAs and PowerSport EVOs at the highest. Just ordered some Power Cup EVOs and, while lookin' for pricing, came across some reviews.
Apparently, some guy went from the PowerSports EVOs (my current ride) to the Cups and dropped four seconds on his lap times.

Yeah, yeah, yeah...what track, what bike, what skill level, etc?
Look out fast guy(s). :rich: 1:30-ish at NJMP is comin'. :fred:

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Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:46 pm
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Assholio Supremo
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Post Re: Track tires...
What wasn't mentioned is that they dropped 4 seconds a lap....at the Isle of Man circuit. :laughing:

Seriously though, if you're sliding around on the SuperSports, I could see how times could drop by switching to race rubber. I wouldn't use those for your CSS days since they'll heat cycle to death quickly (because race rubber), but they guys that like Michelin's really seem to like 'em. That's basically the Michelin equivalent to the Pirelli SuperCorsa "SC" series.

P.S. My buddy John Bonelli (who is 56 or 57) is doing 31's and 32's at NJMP.. on a previous generation GSXR 600. :fencing: Just sayin'. GET SOME!!! :fred: http://www.motolaptimes.com/2016/NJMP%2 ... -25433.htm

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Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:37 pm
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Sharp-Sighted Shooter of Substantially Separated Steels (but can't hear shit)
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Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:28 pm
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Location: bloomsburg, midnight oil garage.
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Post Re: Track tires...
Eskimo wrote:
...at the Isle of Man circuit. :laughing:


:lol: :lol: :lol:

I slide the rear a bit but looking for more overall grip to up my corner speed. I'm hopin' the slides are just symptoms of my suspension not dialed completely. It's a wallowing slide, hard on the gas, exiting a couple corners.

As far as how long they'll last? They're Michelins, but I won't be on them this next week. Usin' up the Powersports. If the rear goes, I'll slap a Dunlop whatever on there.

I've always thought NJMP was a 600 track. I like challenges to my skill. And...racing's different...different mindset. Not that I wouldn't be goin' for race pace, if I could remember what that was. :D

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Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:54 pm
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Assholio Supremo
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Post Re: Track tires...
funfred wrote:
I'm hopin' the slides are just symptoms of my suspension not dialed completely. It's a wallowing slide, hard on the gas, exiting a couple corners.

I've always thought NJMP was a 600 track. I like challenges to my skill. And...racing's different...different mindset. Not that I wouldn't be goin' for race pace, if I could remember what that was. :D


Mike took preload out of my shock and twiddled a little bit on the knobs (I'm guessing softened it to allow it to move more) to help with a similar issue at VIR. I wasn't feeling the bike "set" or squat when I was getting back on the gas, and it was sliding the rear when I tried to give it any appreciable amount of go. I still get it just a touch coming out of the real T7 (CSS turn 9.. the beginning of the long right past the condos), and a bit more coming out of T3c heading towards wheelie hill.

(Don't try this at home, kids) Contributing to it is/was me not giving the bike a little "ask" of throttle while fully leaned to help transition the weight to the rear.. Instead, I was coasting at full lean and trying to make up for it by waiting until I'm on the meat of the tire, then pouring on the "go". A good place to practice fixing this is at the end of the lightbulb.. right as the actual corner is about to end (which is a bit before you start to lift the bike), I start "asking" to roll on a little throttle, which ends up that when I start to pick the bike up, I'm already at 10-15% and able to drive harder (albeit briefly), whereas before I was basically coasting at 0-5%. Coming out of T6 (the fast right after the slow left T5, CSS T7) is another spot where there's a lot of time spent at lean to try this on. I only started trying this really late in the day Sunday and on Monday. Should help.

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Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:59 am
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Sharp-Sighted Shooter of Substantially Separated Steels (but can't hear shit)
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Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:28 pm
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Post Re: Track tires...
NJMP's T2 and exiting the chicane are where my current set-up struggles to stay in line. Kinda cool, tho', gettin' the bike all jacked in front of the coaches while they wait for their students. :D
I don't know for sure that this is so much a suspension issue as it might be tire choice...you know, street tires. My recommended sags are off, front mostly...just not too concerned about it at the moment. Not makin' any changes 'til I find how these Cup EVOs, or any race tire, responds to my inputs.

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Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:07 am
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Post Re: Track tires...
Quote:
I don't know for sure that this is so much a suspension issue as it might be tire choice..


Or perhaps... :?:


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Wed Jul 27, 2016 4:28 pm
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Sharp-Sighted Shooter of Substantially Separated Steels (but can't hear shit)
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Location: bloomsburg, midnight oil garage.
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Post Re: Track tires...
Oh, dear. Another that needs to go to school.
:apex:
:D

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Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:12 pm
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Assholio Supremo
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Post Re: Track tires...
funfred wrote:
Oh, dear. Another that needs to go to school.


My thoughts exactly. I think we're gonna have to get the Evolve coaches together and do an "eval for E4 group" on pubes where we stuff him like a thanksgiving turkey into the corners, pass him close enough to hit the kill switch, fun stuff like that. :fart:

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Rich Q.
'07-08 Yamaha R6 - Race "the Tiger Bike"
'04 Aprilia Tuono - Street/coaching
'06 KTM XC-W 200 - braaap!
'14 Zuma 155 - Yeah, it's striped, too.
CCS Expert #128
EvolveGT coach #128

Thanks to my 2017 sponsors! METRIC DEVIL MOTO / PIRELLI TIRE | SCORPION | WOODCRAFT | VORTEX | PARTS CLUB | HAZARDOUS RACING
GET IT!!! http://www.richquinlan.com


Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:13 am
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Sharp-Sighted Shooter of Substantially Separated Steels (but can't hear shit)
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Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:28 pm
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Location: bloomsburg, midnight oil garage.
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Post Re: Track tires...
Ha.

Engineers with be further scrutinized by having to give an oral (prevents plagiarism) dissertation on the physics involved when a motorcycle negotiates a turn. :lol:

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Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:44 am
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Post Re: Track tires...
Wow. Tough crowd. I don't understand the need for a 'thanksgiving level' of hostility. :shrug:

As a fellow board member, track enthusiast, and friend I was trying to help Fred out by thinking diverently instead of convergently about the problem, and considering all possible facets of the situation. Since 4 brands of tires didn't work it seemed time to look else where.

:idea: :idea: :idea:

When I heard Fred (basically) say he was having problems with his performance not being what is was as a younger man, I thought about the advertisements I see on the TV. It appears most dwindling performance issues of men that age can be fixed by prescription, and though it was worth mention. :alright:


Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:49 am
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Sharp-Sighted Shooter of Substantially Separated Steels (but can't hear shit)
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Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:28 pm
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Location: bloomsburg, midnight oil garage.
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Post Re: Track tires...
:lol:
You can't weasel your way out of this.

I'm faster than I ever was, just don't care how fast. That's not to say I don't care about my machine being up to speed.

From an engineering standpoint, would you put Usain Bolt in a pair of Connies and expect him to win world-class events or would you put him in dedicated track shoes?
I've been runnin' in Connies...it kinda sucks. When I get track shoes, there will be some adjustment to my suspension so as not to blow my knees out.

And, hey, we're not being tough. We seek the same things, just farther up the road.
Here's some easy to understand charts to help you reach your potential...
:D


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Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:22 pm
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Post Re: Track tires...
So in order to fulfill the void that is motorcycling off season blues, I ordered some spare wheels today from a '15. (According to the interwebs, the rims are actually a bit heavier, however on the bright side they LOOK lighter.) My goal is to have a set of race rubber for hot/dry days and a set of 50/50 tires ready to go for less perfect conditions.

Here are my reasons for doing this, feel free to tell me I'm wrong:
At VIR this summer the bike felt very greasy. It was very hot that weekend and I was pushing my abilities. The Q3 tires still had about half tread left. In talking with a bunch of people the conclusion was probably overheating the tire a bit. I changed them out for the spare set I had already purchased. Long story short i needed an emergency change of tires because the new ones were shredding themselves ( due to a crash the trackday before). Thank you to RiderX for giving me his insurance set of DRC's. These don't seem to wiggle as much, but I haven't ridden them on that hot of a day. As I'm looking around the pit lane, it seems 80% of the guys in the fast group have slicks, and the 20% of us that don't wait at the back of the grid to have our own battle. I'm typically battling it out with the other guys also on street tires. I'm having fun doing this at the pace I go, but I'm worried I'm getting nearer the limits of the tire. Now I know the 50/50 tires are capable of quicker times, my concern is I'd like to have more available grip, so I have a larger safety margin, even if I'm not going much faster. I've seen you nut jobs pass me and therefore witnessed many times what those tires are capable of. :smile: One concern is that I'm too slow, and won't keep the tire hot enough. Although Hammer has seen my riding and recommended I consider slicks FWIW.

So to sum up the above, not looking for a 4 second drop in lap times, just more margin of error, and if pace naturally increases then that's a bonus.

So onto my actual questions:
1. My understanding is, Dunlop slicks are bricks and that you need to be stupid stupid fast for these to communicate what they are doing; Pirellis are soft and the amateur racing hero. My question is where do the michellin's from 'Gabe' fit in as far as feel and price? I'm pretty sure I'm going Pirelli's, but it would be nice to support the guy at alot of the Evolve events.

2. Tire warmers, I like the idea of 2 settings: a warm 130degree setting in case of a cold morning I could throw them on the 50/50 tires, and a hot setting for the slicks. Other than reading the descriptions from the packaging, anything more to know about them? recommendations? durability? they all warm tires, just buy one?

3. I remember reading an Eskimo post about 190/60 tires being developed. Should I go 190/60, or 200/60? I'd imagine given my goal of extra safety margin I'd go 200/60 for extra grip, and sacrifice a little transition flickability. I also seem to recall (don't remember where) that the CBR's tend to like a little extra height in the rear. I suppose Fred would know best on that. Thoughts?


Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:18 pm
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Post Re: Track tires...
I hate Dunlop’s. I just do, that’s why.

I really like the idea of warmers at track days. Don’t skimp on them if you buy. If they’re not doing what they should be doing or what you THINK they are doing it may bite you in the ass once you’re on the track. Buy a good set. I’d recommend Chicken Hawk but Rich and the regular track guys would know better what works and what doesn’t.

My CBR, although a different generation than yours, responded VERY well to a taller rear tire in conjunction with a “pointier” front.


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Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:00 am
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Assholio Supremo
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Post Re: Track tires...
1: Yes. Dunlop's race tires suck until you're in the mid 1:20's (t-bolt time). Pirelli's work from WSBK times on up to 1:40's. That's why there are different compounds. There will be Pirelli representation at Evolve track days this year. Some people on Michelin's go fast, but there aren't many. Those who go fast basically ride for free, so of course they're hesitant to switch! (Melka, Shepherd, etc.)

2: Dual temp is fine. Chicken Hawk is the standard, but $$. I've been very happy with my Woodcraft's that you can't (by design) accidentally leave on. Others like Moto-D, but I (and others) never consider anything of theirs are top of the line.. Just a decent product at a very good price. But they don't suck. There's very few reasons to legitimately sell warmers once you own them, so caveat emptor if you buy used.

3: 6" wheel gets the big tire, whatever that is. Period. End of discussion. Seriously. 5.5" wheels get the other size. Whether the manufacturer calls it a 180,190,blah blah blah.. There's a single good 5.5" tire wheel size, and a single good 6.0" wheel tire size. Get 'em, adjust suspension height to match. (The tire vendor can help guide you on that)

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'07-08 Yamaha R6 - Race "the Tiger Bike"
'04 Aprilia Tuono - Street/coaching
'06 KTM XC-W 200 - braaap!
'14 Zuma 155 - Yeah, it's striped, too.
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Thanks to my 2017 sponsors! METRIC DEVIL MOTO / PIRELLI TIRE | SCORPION | WOODCRAFT | VORTEX | PARTS CLUB | HAZARDOUS RACING
GET IT!!! http://www.richquinlan.com


Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:51 pm
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Post Re: Track tires...
Your welcome Mr. Cubes. The DRCs work well for me as did the Q3s but I'm a lot slower than you guys.

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Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:00 pm
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